Intro:   

Broadcasting live from the Business Radio studios in Detroit, Michigan. It's time for Detroit Business Radio. Now, here's your host.

 

The Mag

 

Lee Cantor here, another episode of Detroit Business Radio, and this is going to be a good one. Today we have with us Lisa Harvey Roach with Wisdom Consulting. Welcome, Lisa.

 

Lisa Harvey:    

 

Thank you, Lee. I'm glad to be here.

 

The Mag

 

Well, I'm excited to learn what you're up to, can you share a little bit about Wisdom Consulting, how are you serving folks?

 

Lisa Harvey:    

 

Sure, I serve people specifically women leaders who are in manufacturing organizations and STEM fields, because a lot of times women need to hone their communication skills. So I serve those leaders who want to improve communication skills, so they can be seen, heard, and respected.

 

The Mag

 

How did you get into this line of work?

 

Lisa Harvey:    

 

Well, my background is in engineering, and I was in corporate for 20 plus years. And then as you know, around the 2008 timeframe was a downturn. And at the time, I had been working for Visteon as a program manager. And they did tell us, we had two years to find another job. I had decided that I always wanted to do speaking and training. So rather than finding another corporate job, I said, this is a perfect time for me to get ready to go out and do my own thing. So that's when I launched in 2008, I launched my own business was done consulting, and started doing speaking and training.

 

The Mag

 

Now, any advice for the women out there that maybe are in a corporate job, and they're thinking in the back of their mind, hey, you know what, maybe I'm going to do something entrepreneurial? Can you talk about kind of your mindset, and maybe the mindset shift you had to do to really take that leap?

 

Lisa Harvey:    

 

Yes, it's a big shift. Because, you know, incorporate, you're used to getting that paycheck, every two weeks, or every month, whatever it is, you're used to understanding what the objectives are based on what the company's objectives are. So you follow their plan, when you're in business for yourself, you really have to be focused. And you have to have a plan. And that's what I found was the most important thing, you really have to have a plan? How are you going to do business? How much money are you going to, you know, spend for your savings, which is what I ended up doing, you know when I left corporate I had savings. And I also had a severance package. And so I relied on that. And then I went into business with someone, but I didn't really have a contract with her. 

 

So when her business went down there minded as well. And so I would say, if you're thinking about doing something, start small on the side, get things going, make a plan, know what you have to do, and really plan it out as to what's the best approach for the business and make sure you know, your target market. If they start doing any kind of research about entrepreneurship, they always say what's your target market? Who do you serve? You know, you just asked me, Who do you serve? And that's so important.

 

The Mag

 

So now how did you kind of whittle it down to the group that you do serve?

 

Lisa Harvey:    

 

Well to be honestly, I wouldn't let down. When we were more in COVID, to be more specific about it. So before this, before COVID hit, I would go to different corporations and just do training to groups. So I would go to manufacturing organizations, hospitals, all types of groups, to teach on project management, communication skills. And I did a lot of traveling while when COVID hit I had, I didn't have to travel anymore because people weren't inviting me in, everything slowed down. So I had to decide, okay, what do you really want to do if you just want to focus on a particular area? What do you really enjoy focusing on? And where do you see there's a real need. So that's when I started to scale it back. Plus, when I was doing training, a lot of women were in the class, I noticed. And we often had good conversations about how they were treated incorporate and some of the changes that needed to be made. So it really was during COVID that I said, I'm going to stop spreading myself so thin and just focus on women leaders.

 

The Mag

 

So now having kind of yourself gone through this where being a woman in a male-dominated industry do you have any advice for those women in that that space like maybe a young person that maybe this their first time to tap into the appropriate resources? Can I imagine that there's when you were starting out there wasn't as many resources as there are for women today?

 

Lisa Harvey:    

 

Exactly, I would encourage them to find a mentor. That really helped me when I was in corporate, sometimes companies have formal programs, sometimes they don't. But I would say approach someone that you admire and respect. And say, you know, I really admire the way you do X, Y, and Z, I know I can learn a lot from you, I would really be grateful if you could mentor me. And maybe that's meeting once a week, month, once a month, whatever works for you. And then also try to offer something in exchange. So maybe you could, you know, the mentee could say, I know you're working on a project that requires a lot of spreadsheet input. And I'd be happy to help you with that in exchange for your time. So I would encourage them to get a mentor. Because when you get someone that really knows the ins and outs of the business, you learn so much that you don't understand as a newbie, right? You don't understand what's really going on, but they can school you on things that you need to know and be mindful of.

 

The Mag

 

And then that kind of relationship, you bring up a great point. And a lot of people that are involved in mentoring really, I don't think to appreciate that side of it. But if you're the mentee, look for ways to give back. It can't just be you just taking it has to be semi symbiotic.

 

Lisa Harvey:    

 

Absolutely, yes, definitely.

 

The Mag

 

So now, when you're working with female leaders, what types of kind of communication skill challenges do you kind of see time and time again?

 

Lisa Harvey:    

 

Well, you know, Lee, what's sad is that there's some of the same challenges that I had, you know, 20 years ago. That's what sad to see that women are still doing, dealing with the same things, you know, not being heard, or expressing ideas that aren't taken seriously. Not feeling like they're being listened to, or not being comfortable being direct. And as a woman, unfortunately, we still have to have that balance of coming across as somewhat nice, right? And yet, being assertive, and in your power. And I think that's a balancing act for women. So it's very challenging, you know, men can say, hey, I think we need to do this, X, Y, and Z. But if a woman speaks up, she might be viewed as harsh. You know, it's interesting that I know you don't talk politics, but Soledad O'Brien did a show. 

 

And she was just saying about how we're socialized. And she said, this was before the person was announced who would be a VP for Biden, but she said, If a woman is picked, she's gonna have a problem with likability. Because a woman is supposed to be liked, right? In our society, we view women as you know, we want to like them. But if she's very strong, and let's say foreign policy, that may cause her to not be like, and I think that is the same for women in corporate they have that issue with that balance, like how do I come across as assertive, but not as aggressive? And not be called the B-word. Right? That's, that's the big challenge.

 

The Mag

 

And then when you're working with these women, how do you kind of approach that? Like, I would imagine you It runs the gamut, right? So some women are maybe more timid, and some women are more aggressive? How do you kind of work with them to modulate, their communication skills?

 

Lisa Harvey:    

 

Well, I'm a strong believer in affirmations and mindset. So you have to get your mindset, right. And that's in any area that you're working in really, right. You have to believe that you're capable, you have to also believe that you deserve to be heard and to speak up, and you have to practice. So practice in the mirror, say, I have this idea in mind, or are you aware that you spoke to me in that tone? And I'm not saying confront people in a big crowded room, but sometimes it's just a matter of, you know, speaking to them privately? Are you aware that you have a very harsh tone when you speaking to me, so you have to get comfortable with that? And the other thing I tell women is, a lot of times we as women want to avoid conflict. 

 

And so you can say, you know, okay, I'm just going to be accepting of this, or I'm going to speak up, and you have to ask yourself, are you comfortable with the results? So if you want to remain passive, and that has to do with picking your battles, too, right? So you're not going to address every situation, but you have to really ask yourself, Am I comfortable with the way I'm being treated? Am I comfortable with the way I'm presenting myself?

 

The Mag

 

Now when you are kind of working through some of the psychology of that, and the person decides, you know what, I'm not going to confront the person for whatever reason They also have to kind of let it go at that point, right? So once they've kind of made a choice, they have to give themselves grace and forgiveness of that of that choice. They can't like the second guess it for another week or and not sleep at night, right? Like, so it's one of those things where whatever path you choose to go down, you have to kind of own it, and then be okay with it.

 

Lisa Harvey:    

 

Absolutely. There's a great book by Marcia Petrie Sue, that says "How to handle toxic people without going to jail". Well, it's not actually without going to jail. But it's without using duct tape. And not it's something like that. But she says you handled people with TLC, take it, leave it or change it. And I love that philosophy for everything. So it goes right back to the point you're saying, you, you don't have to be a victim as what she says you either take it, you decide, You know what, they're very aggressive. But I'm not going to speak up because everyone allows it in the company. And so I'm not going to change it, you take it, or you leave it and you say, You know what, this is not for me, I don't appreciate, not being respected. I don't appreciate being hollered at, I'm going to have to find another job. And I know that's not easy, but that's another option. And the final option is to change it so it's take it, leave it or change it. Or you try to change it by appealing to the person's sense of fairness, and all of that. But you're absolutely right. Don't be a victim, you make a decision. And once you make that decision, you stick with it and you own it. Right? Take it leave it or change it.

 

The Mag

 

Right, because people have more control than I think they think they have.

 

Lisa Harvey:    

 

Yes, yes. I always tell people that. Have you ever noticed a bully doesn't bully everybody? Do they know who they can pick on? Right? So you have to present yourself in a way that doesn't happen. I know when I worked for General Motors and the Grand Rapids stamping plant and there was a plant manager that was very demanding. And he'd come through the plant, you know, people be backing away. Oh, well, you're convinced to do you know, everyone was afraid of him because he had that positional power. So you know, he knew if you didn't do what he says he could? Can you know, or, or you could lose your job. And I remember one time he hollered at me and I was a plant metallurgist at the time. So I was on his staff. And in a staff meeting, it was typical Eddie dollar at people. But he never had hollered at me. And I was like, Whoa, what's going on? So at the end of the day, after I had ruminated about this all day, like, oh, my gosh, what did I do? Right? At the end of the day, I had to walk past his office to get to the parking lot, right. And I went inside and I said, Mr. B this morning, I'm sorry, I don't know. And you just go home, have a good dinner. We're good. 

 

And I was like, all day I was anxious about this. And then And then Oh, another thing that I did as a woman we typically do is I went in, and I apologize. Why did I apologize, say I'm sorry, you know, so that's another thing we have to get rid of. But the point of the story is that when I went in, and at least by addressing it, that never happened to me again, he never hollered at me again, you know. So sometimes we have to just take that risk and speak up because we'll feel better because I knew I didn't like being hollered at unnecessarily, you know, if you're wrong, or you did something wrong, you have to own it stamp. Yep, you know what I was wrong. But if you're not wrong, and someone's just, you know, yelling, that doesn't make me feel good, it doesn't make me feel confident, it doesn't make me feel respected. So I have to speak upon it. And a lot of women, they just like you said they have more power than they think. And they need to take it and embrace it.

 

The Mag

 

Now, this must be very rewarding work. Can you share a story of maybe working with one of your clients that you help them get to the next level?

 

Lisa Harvey:    

 

Well, I was talking to one lady now this was in the past, actually, that she had recommended a book "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People ". And she was studying that. And she came up to me and she said, You know, I've been going through this, but people at work are not liking my changes. Should I go back to being the way I was? I said, Absolutely not. That's their issue, not yours. Are you comfortable with the way you're being now? And she said, absolutely. So then you continue to do that. So it's those kinds of stories that make you feel good that they see the change, they know they need to keep going, but sometimes it's challenging, and that's why you do coaching with people and work with them. Because it's not, you know, no one's going to turn around and just make a change overnight. You have to keep doing it. That's why it's also good to be in supportive groups like I'm in the forum and I'm, I work with women on those teams to, to just learn to speak up and own their power, but that's a group where we help each other actually so informants or organization that helps women, there are a lot of organizations that help women to be their best selves.

 

The Mag

 

Yeah, and that's an that's a good lesson about coaching, I think that you're investing in coaching because you want to learn something in some expertise, obviously. But you're also investing in kind of an accountability partner, a person that's going to kind of be there, because nobody goes in a straight line up, there's always, you know, backward steps, and then you just need some kind of backward step prevention, that's going to keep you moving forward when you're thinking that to run back to where you were the safety of where the past was. So, sometimes change is difficult. And it's always good to have somebody on your side, that's there to say, yeah, that's normal. It's okay. You know.

 

Lisa Harvey:    

 

And we all need that I still have coaches, you know, to help me to move forward, and to do more, be better, you know.

 

The Mag

 

Right. I think that sometimes people think that, oh, once I have that knowledge, or this little golden nugget of information, then that's what I'm missing. But it's not just that if it was that simple, like, you know, there's been millions of books been written about everything like we'd all be super-geniuses doing the right thing all the time. I mean, it's just not that simple.

 

Lisa Harvey:    

 

Exactly. It's not even for me, you know, I find myself I have to constantly think about what I'm doing and don't overanalyze, but we all need to just be mindful of how did I come across? How am I sounding? Is this the best approach? And think about those things that sometimes we don't. And sometimes we fall back, you know, and I say, I'm teaching on communication. But yeah, I said this or that, or maybe I was harsh or judgmental. And you have to be mindful of that. It's one thing to be assertive, but you don't want to be harsh, and you don't want to be judgmental. You don't always want to be thinking you're right. Now going off on something else I have an issue with is women being perfectionists, you know, and sometimes that holds you back. And I know that's an issue that I have to always keep in check. Right? It's done is better than perfect. I think that's the saying, you know, so don't let that stop you and hold you back.

 

The Mag

 

Well, I see that a lot also, where if you don't or can't execute it perfectly, you don't take any action. And I always find that it's better to take some action and learn and tweak and fix, then no, actually, it doesn't have to be binary all or nothing like there's a spectrum. So you can take something, it can be a work in progress, you can sell something that isn't fully complete, it's okay, you can fix it, there can be a version two, you know, lots of books have second and third and fourth and fifth editions. It's okay, you can be done. It's can be good enough today.

 

Lisa Harvey:    

Yes, you know, I'm a certified Project Management Professional, as well. And one of the things we teach in project management is when you have a project use what's called a work breakdown structure. And that's breaking down the project into bite-sized pieces. And that's what we need to do. You know, sometimes rather than looking at the whole thing and getting overwhelmed, just take it little chunks at a time. And then like you say you can have a phase one to phase two and revise it. But it doesn't have to be all figured out and all, you know, perfect the first time because it does, like you say stop you from actually accomplishing anything.

 

The Mag

 

So now, I went to your website, and I see that you have a lot of resources for folks, can you share a little bit about what's on your website and some of the stuff that you have that can help them?

 

Lisa Harvey:  

 

Yes, thanks for allowing me to do that. On the website. One resource I have is about productivity. So how can you improve your productivity? And if you download that resource, you'll also get it in the form of not just the text, but also a mind map. So I'm certified in mind mapping. And I love that as a visual tool to help people see things in a visual format. So not everyone is a linear thinker. And the mind map just helps you see it with using colors and pictures and keywords. It's just a different way of looking at it. But I find that managing your time is so key. You know, we all have a certain amount of time in the day 24 hours. I remember when I would teach in person and I say how is it that Oprah Winfrey and you and I have the same amount of time, but she gets so much more done. You know, and I remember one attendee said because she's got people, honey, so as to, but also because she's focused about what she's doing, right. She's organized and she's making every moment count. 

 

So that's what that resource is about. I have another one for the list. listeners if they go to lisaharveyroach.com/speakup. So lisaharveyroach.com/speakup, they'll get a free resource that can help them with some of the issues that women have. So it's just three, speak up before you blow up is the title of it. And it's three ways to express yourself with confidence and clarity. So I'll share the first one, I have moved from polite to powerful with assertive language. So I'm talking about how do you move from being so polite, you know, if you're a leader, you don't have to say to your assistant, do you mind doing this for me? Can you do me a favor, you know, you have to say, I like to, I like you to have this report done by my father. If you have any issues, let me know. That's being more assertive. So don't, you know, don't let your power not shine through because you're also being a role model for that person or other people around you. And while I'm focused on women, you know, men can learn from this too. 

 

And we don't want to stereotype that's the other thing. I don't want people to think that all women don't know how to speak up. All women have issues they don't. You know, sometimes in my communications class, what I find is, women are sent there and men are sent there because they're too direct. Sometimes they're too harsh. They say, you know, that goes back to that those personality differences. And they'll say, Well, I don't have time to beat around the bush. So it's always a balance. Because when you know how to speak another person's language, you'll get more from them. So if you're more of a realtor, I do need to come up to you and say, Hey, Lee, how is your weekend? How's it going? Great. Well, you know, we have this meeting coming up on Friday, I want to make sure you're prepared. And I want to also make sure there's nothing else that maybe you need from me, or if there's anything I can do to help you. I want to do that. So let's talk about that. You know, so.

 

The Mag

 

Good stuff. I mean, that's important skills, like you said, that man or woman, it doesn't matter. Those are important communication skills. All right. Now, what is the kind of pain that your prospective client is having? Right before they call you up for help? Like, what is some symptoms that there might be a need for your services?

 

Lisa Harvey:  

 

It's typically what I hear are things like, not being heard, in the meetings, you know, being talked over. Those kinds of things are very frustrating. You know, they make a suggestion, and it's silence. And they, they need to be able to say, Excuse me, I think that was a very good suggestion. I think this suggestion was worthwhile discussing, I'd like some feedback on it. And if you're not comfortable, because everyone is different, so if you're not comfortable doing it in a meeting, then go to your manager after the meeting. And so, you know, I don't know if you're aware, but it seems like every time I speak up and make a suggestion, it falls on deaf ears. How can I change that? I want to make sure I'm seen as a contributor to the organization and seen as someone that, you know, people can come to for great ideas. 

 

So how do I improve on that? Is it the way I'm speaking? Because if you speak up hesitantly, right, maybe people aren't gonna listen, if you say, Well, I kind of saw what I was thinking, they have that low voice, all that, you know, plays into whether or not people are going to hear you, and respect you. So that's, that's a big one not being heard. Getting buy-in from others. So you have to learn how to network. You know, a lot of times, we think women are the ones who can build relationships with men build relationships to on the golf course, right? Things like that. They go out for drinks. So you have to find a way to build relationships with your team members, outside of those key meetings, right? Get that buy-in understand what you need to do better. So that when you get into the meeting, you do get the buy-in and it's not people, you know, throwing ice on your ideas, but you already have input on what you need to do to make it a viable solution.

 

The Mag

 

Yeah, these are so important. Well, Lisa, congratulations on all your success, and you're doing important work, and we appreciate you. What is the website for someone to go and check out all that great stuff that you mentioned, as well as kind of learn more about you and your team?

 

Lisa Harvey:

 

Yeah, my website is lisaharveyroach.com.

 

The Mag

 

Good stuff. Thank you again for sharing your story today.



Lisa Harvey:  

Thank you, Lee. I appreciate your time.

 

The Mag

 

All right. This is Lee Canter. We will see you all next time on Detroit Business Radio.




Image source: https://www.facebook.com/lisa.roach.7355